China’s Covert Weapons Procurement Revealed in Florida Case


August 21, 2016: Chicago, Illinois, U.S. - A F-35 performs as part of the Heritage Flight Team over Lake Michigan during at the 2016 Chicago Air and Water Show in Chicago, IL. (Cal Sport Media via AP Images)

August 21, 2016: Chicago, Illinois, U.S. – A F-35 performs as part of the Heritage Flight Team over Lake Michigan during at the 2016 Chicago Air and Water Show in Chicago, IL. (Cal Sport Media via AP Images)

‘Technology spy’ sought advanced jet engines, Reaper drone for reverse engineering

China’s government covertly tried to obtain advanced U.S. fighter jet engines and a Reaper drone in a high-technology spying operation uncovered by federal authorities in Florida.

A Chinese-born woman, Wenxia Man, was sentenced to 50 months in prison on Friday following her conviction for conspiracy to export restricted American defense articles, namely engines for F-35, F-22, and F-16 jets, and the Reaper, a front-line unmanned aerial vehicle used by the military and intelligence agencies.

Court papers in the case stated that Man, a naturalized U.S. citizen residing in California who is also known as Wency Man, worked with a Chinese government procurement agent, Xinsheng Zhang, in trying to purchase the military items. The Chinese planned to reverse-engineer the U.S. military goods to avoid the costs and time required for indigenous development. Zhang operated from China and remains out of reach of prosecutors.

Michael Walleisa, assistant U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Florida, asked the judge to impose the maximum sentence of 78 months for the weapons conspiracy conviction.

“There is hardly a more serious case than a case such as this that involves some of our most sophisticated fighter jet engines and unmanned weaponized aerial drones,” Walleisa said in a sentencing memorandum.

“The potential for harm to the safety of our fighter pilots, military personnel, and national security which would occur had the defendant been successful is immeasurable, particularly where, as here the clear intent of the co-conspirators was to enable the People’s Republic of China to reverse engineer the defense articles and manufacture fighter jets and UAV’s.”

The conspiracy revealed that China was seeking to “increase its military capabilities and might to the potential detriment of the United States,” Walleisa said.

The U.S. government imposed an arms embargo on China in 1990 following the Chinese military’s massacre of unarmed pro-democracy protesters in Beijing’s Tiananmen Square a year earlier.

Between 2011 and 2013, Man and Zhang worked together to solicit three sets of General Electric and Pratt and Whitney turbofan engines for the F-35, F-22, and F-16 jets, as well as a General Atomics Reaper drone and technical details of the equipment. The Chinese were prepared to pay $50 million for the embargoed items.

Authorities launched an investigation of the case after Man contacted a defense industry source who alerted U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Homeland Security Investigations unit in Miami. The Pentagon’s Defense Criminal Investigative Service also investigated the case.

Man used a company called AFM Microelectronics, Inc. in trying to buy the military equipment. She disclosed to an undercover federal agent in 2012 that the jet engines were meant for the Chinese government and that she knew it was illegal to export them, according to court papers.

China is engaged in a major military buildup that includes two new advanced stealth jet fighters that U.S. intelligence agencies say benefitted from stolen American aircraft technology.

The attempt to buy embargoed jet fighter engines highlights what military analysts say is China’s major technology shortfall—its inability to manufacture high-quality jet engines. Turbofan engines require extremely precise machine work and parts because of the high speeds of their spinning engine fans.

Zhang was described by the government in court papers as a “technology spy” working for China’s military-industrial complex. The Chinese government buys arms and military technology from Russia and other states “so that China can obtain sophisticated technology without having to conduct its own research,” the indictment in the case states.

The name of the Chinese entity was not disclosed. China’s government defense industry group is SASTIND, an acronym for State Administration for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense.

Zhang sought to buy the operating system and aircraft control system for the MQ-9 Reaper as well as the unmanned aerial vehicle itself and the technical design data for the aircraft. The drone sought was an armed version capable of firing Hellfire missiles.

Man, 45, was convicted of one count of conspiracy to export defense goods with a license.

At sentencing on Friday, U.S. District Judge Beth Bloom told the court that Man hoped to get a $1 million commission on the illegal export and that she wanted to help China compete with the United States militarily.

“I’m innocent,” Man told the judge, the South Florida Sun-Sentinel newspaper reported. “This is my country, too.” She plans to appeal the conviction that was reached after a jury trial in June.

Michael Pillsbury, a China specialist at the Hudson Institute, said the Man case highlights China’s large-scale technology theft program.

“The scope and the ambition of their technology intelligence collection is breathtaking,” said Pillsbury. “They’re not after petty secrets.”

The Man case is similar to an earlier Chinese technology acquisition operation headed by Chi Mak, another naturalized Chinese citizen. In 2007, Mak, an electrical engineer at the U.S. firm Power Paragon, was convicted of conspiracy to export sensitive electronics defense technology to China.

Mak was a long-term technology spy who operated for 20 years. U.S. officials believe Mak provided China with secrets to the Aegis battle management system, the heart of current Navy warships.

China has deployed a similar version of the Aegis ship, known as the Type 052D warship.

Source: Washington Free Beacon “China’s Covert Weapons Procurement Revealed in Florida Case”

Note: This is Washington Free Beacon’s report I post here for readers’ information. It does not mean that I agree or disagree with the report’ views.


63 Comments on “China’s Covert Weapons Procurement Revealed in Florida Case”

  1. Joseph says:

    I recall a few years back that the UK was cracking down Chinese post grad students doing plagiarisms. These students was not plagiarizing UK’s research journals, but actually translating and plagiarizing research journals from Chinese Academy of Science, and those researces were not even classified. The practice had been going on for years, and those plagiartors were even hired to do research on UK multi billion dollars researches. They were only busted when the UK academics presented their ‘innovations’ to academics from Chinese Academy of Science, who turned out to be the real authors of the journals. It was actually incredible that the UK researchers didn’t have even the basic science to verify the ‘innovations’. They were so eager to poach talents that they were conned by some crooks seeking high-paid jobs, pretending to be the ‘talents’. The British must embarrassingly find out when they presented ‘UK innovations’ to the very people who actually created the very same ‘innovations’. Of course the British would only focus that the crooks were Chinese, ignoring the fact that those Chinese crooks dubbed them with innovations that were also Chinese.

    Like

  2. Joseph says:

    I thought the American was accusing China to hack the information from internet. Now they accuse Chinese in America to be spies. So which one? They could not even make up their mind. I don’t know that military technology is so readily available for purchase on American civilian markets. Beside, I don’t see the point of acquiring the aforementioned engines. The F-35 engine is an epic failure that does not pass beyond the drawing board. The F-22 engine is killing its pilots. And the F-16 engine is so old and obsolete that no one even bother to look for scraps. Beside, the Pakistani has provided full working units for China to examine and reproduce to circumvent American parts embargo. And if it is not enough, there are more F-16 junks from Indonesia that the Indonesian would happily give in exchange for the favored Su-30/J-11. F-15 and F/A-18 would be better excuse.
    Isn’t the case just an excuse to round up some Chinese, not necessarily PRC citizens, for racial profiling. One thing for sure, it appears from the article that the accused was not given a chance to defend herself. The American court is only interested and building case and mocking the accused. Disturbing but not something strange on American bias court.

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    • Vincent Hollier says:

      China cannot innovate so they do what they do best. Copy and steal. After billions of dollars invested in trying to build an advanced jet engine, China is no closer to its goal.

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      • chankaiyee2 says:

        What about quantum satellite, HGV, etc.?

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      • Simon says:

        China invented the world’s first ballistic missile and drones armed with mulitiple warheads in the form of a dragon. The West stole from China and remade it to their own.

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        • VH says:

          If your statement is true then why is China so far back technologically? Why after billions of dollars in RD investment is China unable to build a modern jet engine? Are these problems caused by the west? Or is it that China is incapable of innovation like most of the world says?

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          • StopEuropeanAnimalBordellos says:

            The Europeans and Americans had many decades to develop the jet engine so of course they are ahead.

            WS-10
            Type Turbofan
            National origin People’s Republic of China
            Manufacturer Shenyang Liming Aircraft Engine Company
            First run 1990s
            Major applications Shenyang J-11B
            Shenyang J-16
            Status In production[1]
            Number built 300+

            So, you’re wrong. China has built it own jet engines without any Western help at all in less than 30 years since opening up. Can any other country compare?

            Decades ago, China went from fission bombs to thermonuclear faster than every other country that attempted the same. Know your place, pink devil.

            btw – how is your f35 engine doing? Search “f135 engine failure” and enjoy

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            • T50 says:

              Your WS-10 engine is not powerful enough to allow your J-20 and J-31 stealth fighters to super-cruise, or fly at supersonic speeds like their closest rivals without using the afterburner. Further your weak WS-10 engines don’t produce enough thrust, or power, and need frequent repairs.

              Haven’t the PLAAF lost several aircraft due to engine problems? The Russians report that issues with the WS-10 include incidents of shedding turbine blades, oil leakage issues, and even one unconfirmed rumor of a new J­11BS fighter disintegrating in flight due to a Taihang engine failure. Stop wasting time and let me know when you develop a modern powerful engine.

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              • Joseph says:

                So the American has been using F-16 engines on their F-35? No wonder they need so many aerial refuelings. By this rate, in order to conduct successful mission with F-35s, even if they come back, the aerial tankers will not.

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              • Sentinel says:

                J11B disintegrating in mid air? Where is your source for this claim? Or perhaps you just pluck it out of thin air just to dramatize your bigoted views?

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            • T50 says:

              Thanks for bringing up the F-35. The news is this: 7 F35s have been involved in intense carrier work ups leading up to operational deployment. Read about it here and enjoy.

              https://theaviationist.com/2016/08/22/we-have-been-aboard-uss-george-washington-during-f-35cs-latest-carrier-trials/

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              • chankaiyee2 says:

                Good timely information about F-35.

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                • AirOPS says:

                  Here’s some more. Notice how the F-35 doesn’t need burner to launch. And notice how smooth air operations are performed both launches and traps. American navy showing the world how its done. Does anybody want a piece of us? If so bring it.

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                  • AirOPS says:

                    The link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZKO5_k9UME. Note the tempo of air operations. Next up night air ops for your viewing pleasure.

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                    • chankaiyee2 says:

                      I assume that you are an American citizen or at least an America worshiper, but I am sorry that I am not impressed by the footage you provide.

                      As a country with more than 7 decades of experience in producing and operating aircraft carriers and spent billions and years in developing a new fighter jet, there is, I am sorry, nothing to be proud of to see that their pilots are able to take off and land smoothly their very expensive new fighter jets.

                      What I am interested is the functions, performance of and progress in obtaining initial operation capability by the new fighter jet.

                      I am grateful that T50 has provided me information that the aircraft-carrier version of F-35 will obtain initial operational capability in late 2017 or early 2018 according to US military’s plan. By that time, China’s J-20 is sure to obtain such capability too as there have been test flights for such capability much longer.

                      America and its citizens want world hegemony; therefore, they are enthusiastic and very happy to showcase their military capabilities.

                      China, however, only wants to have active defense capability to resist US aggression. Please do not deny that the US is an aggressor with respect to China as we see lots of discussion about the ways to attack China by US military, but no discussion whatsoever of the way to attack the US by Chinese military.

                      China develops J-20 to grab air dominance from F-22 and F-35 in the airspace near it. Only when its J-20 is able to do so can China prevent US conventional attack of its homeland.

                      As China does not pursue world hegemony, it does not showcase J-20’s capabilities. The photos of J-20 test flights were all taken by Chinese military fans while China, as usual, keep confidential its most advanced weapons.

                      Therefore, I hope that you are not carried away by the footage of the test flights of a batch of F-35Cs. There is still a long way to go for F-35 to obtain initial operation capability.

                      However, we are sure that F-35 is not developed to deal with J-20 as J-20 is a heavier fighter jet with better equipment and weapons. The US has to upgrade its F-22 heavy fighter to deal with J-20. It has a plan to do so but needs the funds. To maintain world hegemony, the US has to deploy its military all over the world and develop all kinds of weapons so that its much bigger military budget is not enough.

                      China has only to focus on deployment of its military in its own territories and development of weapons to resist US attack so that its much smaller military budget is more than enough. Moreover, due to patriotism (regarded by the US as nationalism), its weapon development is voluntarily subsidized by state-owned and private enterprises. US enterprises, however, want to make substantial profits in providing weapons for their country.

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                    • AirOPS says:

                      F35 is a node in 21th century networked warfare. With enhanced situational awareness the warfighter can engage and destroy primitive aircraft like the underpowered j-20. If you are unable to grasp what I am saying just let me know and I will attempt to break things down to your level of understanding,

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                    • chankaiyee2 says:

                      How do you know J-20 does not have network functions? I have a post of F-35’s network function titled “The Reason Why America’s F-35 Would Crush China’s J-20 Stealth Fighter in Battle” (have you read that?) in which there is the passage:

                      “When we apply fifth-generation technology, it’s no longer about a platform, it’s about a family of systems,” Air Force chief of staff Gen. David Goldfein told reporters at the Pentagon on Aug. 10. “It’s about a network and that’s what gives us an asymmetrical advantage, so that why when I hear about an F-35 versus a J-20, it’s almost an irrelevant question.”

                      Gen. Goldfein has to admit that F-35 as a single fighter is inferior to J-20. His assumption is that J-20 will not have network functions. How does he know that? He only assumes that others cannot develop what the US can. Sorry, that is not the reality. Previously the US assumed that China could not develop stealth fighter better than American’s, but now he has to admit J-20 is already better than F-35. China can do what the US can. As a result, he has to seek confort in something that he does not know, i.e. the issue of network. However, he actually does not know J-20’s functions as US spies have so far been unable to know the secret of J-20.

                      Do not underestimate China, or the US will repeat its defeat by China in Korean War. The most advanced troops in the world were defeated by the most backward troops. What shame! Learn from that lesson.

                      Like

                    • F100 says:

                      How do you know J-20 does not have network functions?

                      = Does it? What evidence can you provide that it does. Any?

                      I have a post of F-35’s network function titled “The Reason Why America’s F-35 Would Crush China’s J-20 Stealth Fighter in Battle” (have you read that?) in which there is the passage:
                      “When we apply fifth-generation technology, it’s no longer about a platform, it’s about a family of systems,” Air Force chief of staff Gen. David Goldfein told reporters at the Pentagon on Aug. 10. “It’s about a network and that’s what gives us an asymmetrical advantage, so that why when I hear about an F-35 versus a J-20, it’s almost an irrelevant question.”

                      =So there’s your answer: F-35 was designed from the start as a network fighter. J-20 was designed to counter the F-22

                      Gen. Goldfein has to admit that F-35 as a single fighter is inferior to J-20. His assumption is that J-20 will not have network functions. How does he know that? He only assumes that others cannot develop what the US can.

                      =Maybe someday China will ADD network functions to J-20. However F-35 and to some degree F-22 were designed with networked functions from day one. .

                      Sorry, that is not the reality. Previously the US assumed that China could not develop stealth fighter better than American’s, but now he has to admit J-20 is already better than F-35

                      =How is the big lumbering underpowered J-20 better than F-22 or F-35. At this point J-20 cannot supercruise/ Therefore F-33 and F-35 both have an advantage on it already. This we know.

                      . China can do what the US can. As a result, he has to seek confort in something that he does not know, i.e. the issue of network. However, he actually does not know J-20’s functions as US spies have so far been unable to know the secret of J-20.

                      =Well we know that China cannot build a modern RELIABLE jet engine in the class of the Pratt & Whitney F119 Turbofan. And a powerful engine is the heart of the a modern fighter, China has had to look to Russia for modern jet engines. Did you realize that the Pratt & Whitney F119 Turbofan develops more than twice the thrust of current engines under supersonic conditions, and more thrust without afterburner than conventional engines with afterburner. Those engines are a generation ahead of anything the Chinese are trying to build. And what makes it worse is that the design for the F119 is old. Today P&W is working hard to test an advanced 6th generation engine with features that are revolutionary. China still has to build and deploy a 5th generation engine.

                      Do not underestimate China, or the US will repeat its defeat by China in Korean War. The most advanced troops in the world were defeated by the most backward troops. What shame! Learn from that lesson.

                      =But do not OVER estimate China either.

                      Like

                    • chankaiyee2 says:

                      Sorry, inability in something cannot be proved by inability in something different and unrelated. Do you know logics?

                      We are talking about networking not engine. There has been informatin that China has developed good engine for J-20 according the Chinese military fan’s photo of the engines of some new J-20 but a new engine has to undergo long-term test. However, if there is a war now, J-20 will be installed with powerful Chinese engine in spite of the danger of the engine has not been fully tested as Chinese pilots have daredevil courage.

                      However, such engine remains China’s top secret. However, even if you are right about engine, it is irrelavant about networking.

                      You cannot prove that China cannot, just as I cannot prove China can. I ask someone to prove that China cannot, but you have the courage to come out to argue without the ability to prove. How sad!

                      Anyway, to be safe, do not jump to conclusion.

                      I have read quite a few Chinese reports on PLA drills for achievement of networking as PLA knows well modern war is a systematic war relying on the coordinated use of various kinds of troops, weapons and facilities. However, I do not want to use such information to prove that J-20 has network function as I do not have specific knowledge about J-20 that China regards as its top secret. To be honest, even if I know, I will not tell you as I will be in trouble to reveal China’s top secret.

                      As the US has been overestimating itself in entering North Korea disregarding China’s warning, fighting in Vietnam disregarding its top general and later president’s warning, rashly continuing its wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, it had better accept my warning. I have written so much for the purpose to avoid US attack of China as I want the US to maintain its position as number one in the world. If it rashly attacks China and loses, it will be the end of US position as world number one and the beginning of China’s domination of the world.

                      I believe there must be balance of strength between China and the US to make the world safer and to ensure world peace.

                      History has proved that. US defeat in Korea was a disaster for both China and the US. It contributed to the emergence of China’s Mao Dynasty and has made the US timid in dealing with China and the Soviet Union.

                      If General McArthur had not underestimated China’s will to fight, he would have had stopped US victorious troops’s rash advance deep in North Korea and built defense, then the US would have kept most part of North Korea and there would not have been the Kim Dynasty that has been causing much trouble to the world now.

                      It seems that you are an arrogant American or America worshipper. I have to give you the advice that like you, US politicians and generals lack wisdom. In the past seven decades, they have lost all major wars except the Gulf War in spite of their best weapons in the world.

                      Therefore, if you had knowledge about history, you would understand that even if US is able to keep its weapon superiority, there is nothing to be proud of as the US must have the best since it has the top economy and technology. You must be disappointed that US politicians and generals are strategy illiterates who have not been able to use US military might to achieve their goals.

                      The US has to be disappointed that a very backward and poor China has been able to catch up in weapon development in such a short time so that US most advanced aircraft carriers will be in danger of being sunk if they come within the range of Chinese missiles.

                      However, US generals are at least wiser than you, in spite of their boasting about F-35, they know F-35s cannot attack China in spite of its networking function to avoid the areas of Chinese radars. They know Chinese radar network is so dense that no F-35 can avoid. That is why they want to upgrade F-22 for air supremacy.

                      They know none of US best weapons including F-35, F-22, attack nuclear submarines, etc. can attack China so that they have to develop very expensive B-21 bombers to bomb Beijing. Unlike you, they do not underestimate China now. They have learnt the lessons of US defeat in Korea.

                      Like

                    • Kartikeya says:

                      China needs to be careful about what they say because China thought that Vietnam would be an easy pushover but were surprised by how strong the Vietnamese fought and were forced to leave Vietnam like whipped dogs, History can repeat itself! Beware.

                      Like

                    • chankaiyee2 says:

                      China knew to retreat without losing face but the US stayed in Vietnam for fear of losing face but finally lost everything.

                      From that you see Chinese politicians and generals wisdom. You set a strategic goal but cannot acheve that, you have to give up.

                      China’s foolish strategic goal was to save Cambodian Kamere Rouge from being wiped out by Vienamese forces. Even if it won the war in Vietnam but could not save Kamere Rouge, it had to retreat and give up. You begin a war for a specific strategic goal and have to end that when you know you cannot achieve your goal.

                      You too do not seem to have such wisdom. It is foolish to keep troops in other country. Have a plan to retreat before you enter. China was not driven away but retreated on its own. That was its wisdom. The US has never been able to admit its failure and retreat in time.

                      Learn from China’s wisdom to retreat!

                      Like

                    • chankaiyee2 says:

                      For your further knowledge:
                      One thing you can be sure is that China has made it crystal clear that it develops J-20 for air supremacy. No matter what the US has to fight for that with J-20, China will improve J-20 to achieve that goal at whatever cost. Chinese military has full support from the state and all other enterprises for whatever resources, financial, technological, intelligence and others. (Does US military have such support?) For China’s national security, all the people involved have the obligations to achieve the goal. No relaxation of efforts is allowed until the goal has been attained.

                      For example, China has allocated 100 billion yuan (US$16 billions) for the development of advanced aircraft engines. With that huge fund, China has developed a very powerful engine for J-20 and is conducting long-term test of it. I have got some data about it from unofficial sources but have doubt about the accuracy of the data as it seems too good to me.

                      What I can be sure is that China has developed a new material for its aircraft engine that experts regard as much better than any existing ones. I have a post about that.

                      Therefore, whatever functions you regard as unattainable by China, China will attain for its J-20. Do you understand?

                      China has the advantage of knowing what the US has as US military is fond of disclosing what it has.

                      China just keeps secret what it has till US best fighter jets are annihilated but not knowing why.

                      China follows Sun Tzu’ teaching: The art of war is an art of deception; therefore show you are unable to when you are able to and show that you will not use (military forces) when you are to use (them)…

                      Like

                    • Kartikeya says:

                      The J-20 is too big an aircraft to be an air to air fighter. China will have to learn that lesson the hard way. In combat. Compare J-20 to other modern air to air fighters like T-50, the future Japanese stealth fighter and the F-22 and you shall see. The giant J-20 will be detected much further away than other aircraft. Compare sizes and you shall see!. The J-20 is the size of a small airliner. It cannot be stealthy. Too bad!

                      Like

                    • chankaiyee2 says:

                      My reply to F100 is quite enough to refute you misinformation about J-20; therefore, I will not say anything further on J-20. As for China’s retreat from Vietnam, my reply to you is but common sense on war. It is sad that even some top politicians and generals do not have such common sense. I certainly do no care whether you understand or not as you are not in the position. I give you a reply merely for the purpose to enlighten my readers.

                      It is the same with J-20. I do not care whether you or F100 find my reply acceptable. I only want to provide my readers with the correct information. If you do not accept, I will allow you to show further you ignorance and inablity to understand. I do not want to silence you with any further reply.

                      In fact, I welcome your reply, the more the better. One of my purposes in keeping my blog is to entertain my readers by showing leaders’ folly. However, other people’s folly may also be funny to entertain them.

                      Thanks for your reply.

                      By the way, I hope CIA employs you as its advisor as you are such a rare expert that is able to know the secret of J-20 by a mere look at its photos taken by non-professionals. You shall get a very high salary from CIA as you can provide it with the secret highly paid spies cannot obtain.

                      Like

                    • Kartikeya says:

                      Just by visual inspection alone anyone can see, that J-20 is much bigger than any competing fighter and this factor alone lets you know that poor J-20 will always get the second shot and not the first.. At the best it will be visually detected by an opposing fighter long before it can detect its opponent. As the saying goes in air combat he who sees the enemy first can get the first shot.
                      And when you factor in that J-20 is underpowered you can see that J-20 is at the disadvantage no matter what. It will take a very brave pilot to fly the J-20 into combat.

                      Like

                    • chankaiyee2 says:

                      CIA top advisor Kartikeya shall tell US Air Force chief of staff Gen. David Goldfein to correct his statement to reporters at the Pentagon on Aug. 10. that “When we apply fifth-generation technology, it’s no longer about a platform, it’s about a family of systems. It’s about a network and that’s what gives us an asymmetrical advantage, so that why when I hear about an F-35 versus a J-20, it’s almost an irrelevant question.”

                      According to top expert Kartikeya, Gen. Goldfein should say instead that F-35 versus J-20 is a relevant question as according to Kartikeya’s sharp expert eyes, J-20 is far inferior to F-35. Take Kartikeya’s expert advice: J-20 can simply be ignored. The US shall not upgrade F-22 nor even develop B-21.

                      Like

                    • chankaiyee2 says:

                      Thank you for your reply.

                      It is really funny.

                      Like

                    • chankaiyee2 says:

                      Detect visually!

                      Wonderful ignorance!

                      No radar is necessary, just detect with pilot’s eyes. We shall return to the beginning of World War II! Ha, ha.

                      Like

                    • Steve says:

                      Talking like a smart arse without understanding. The F35 has not even reached Initial Operation Capability and you want to break down to someone’s level of understanding, yet U are the one who is a stupid boof-head. The reason US is upgrading the F22 heavy fighter is to match China’s J-20 because the F-35 is not up to scratch, it’s still a lemon in the sky. U are so impressed by the landings and take offs, this is what pilots do for a living, u silly boof-head.

                      Like

                  • Steve says:

                    Bring what on.? U R a half baked Indian living in a Western Country calling yourself a Westerner…….. U still dip your Fish n Chips in curry sauce.?

                    Like

                    • Kartikeya says:

                      Look at the engine nozzles on the J-20. T-50 and F-22 both have vectored thrust. Even Su-35 has vectored thrust. Chinese J-20 is not equipped with vectored thrust because China cannot manufacture a vectored thrust engine. China will have a disadvantage in air-to-air combat.

                      Like

          • Simon says:

            America stole jet engine technology from Nazi Germany after WW2 under Operation Paperclips were almost 2,000 Nazi scientists were brought over to the States and lived the life of riley in exchange for their knowledge such as Von Braun. Nearly all American jets, rockets, space and nuclear programs are not orginal but borrowed from Nazi scientists. The most prominant American based rocket and jet scientist was Qian Xuesen who is Chinese who later return to China and pioneered China’s nuclear missile and rocket technology

            China has successfully built their own engine for their jets such as the J10 and J11 but China wanted better engine than those offered by Russia for its J20 and J31. China were not happy with the 117s engines on the premier Russian Su 35 fighter and has already developed the more powerful WS 15 which is undergoing test.

            Like

      • gobacktoyouranimalbordellos says:

        …one of the first cases involved the theft of industrial secrets from China. In the 17th and 18th centuries, the Chinese alone possessed the ability to produce high-end “hard-paste” porcelain, an expensive material beloved by Europe’s elites. In the 1680s, a French Jesuit, Pere d’Entrecolles, traveled to China, where he saw the kilns and likely read technical works on the subject.

        In September 1712, he wrote that while visiting Jingdezhen, then known as the porcelain capital of China, he had compiled “a minute description of all that concerns this kind of work.”

        Within a few decades, a porcelain factory in Sévres, France, was producing hard-paste porcelain on par with the Chinese product. In a further twist, the British managed to swipe the secrets from the French, inaugurating Britain’s own high-end porcelain industry.”

        source – China didn’t invent industrial espionage [bloomberg]

        Did you “cleverly” answer “there were no “international laws” / “intellectual property laws” back then”?

        What about Britain stealing Chinese tea making secrets?

        …story of one of the greatest acts of corporate espionage ever committed…

        the British East India Company faced the loss of its monopoly on the fantastically lucrative tea trade with China, forcing it to make the drastic decision of sending Scottish botanist Robert Fortune to steal the crop from deep within China and bring it back to British plantations in India.”

        source – For All the Tea in China: How England Stole the World’s Favorite Drink and Changed History

        Strange, it says here that Britain sent a botanist to *steal a special crop from China*. It sounds like “honorable white men” are breaking laws?

        But but but, that was just an “isolated event”?

        “…the U.S., and for that matter, almost every Western nation, might wish to remember their own, no-holds-barred campaigns to swipe industrial secrets.”

        “Throughout the 18th century, every European power attempted to rip off industrial secrets”

        “…one nation in particular was known for using the illicit methods to great advantage: the U.S. In the country’s very first years, aspiring industrialists looked to Europe and quickly learned to take the easy way out, stealing instead of inventing.”

        source – China didn’t invent industrial espionage [bloomberg]

        Still going strong today…

        “Over the past 15 years, the FBI has chronicled numerous cases involving France, Germany, Japan, Israel, and South Korea. An FBI analysis of 173 nations found that 57 were covertly trying to obtain advanced technologies from U.S. corporations. Altogether, 100 countries spent some public funds to acquire U.S. technology. Former French Intelligence Director Pierre Marion put it succinctly when he told me, “In economics, we are competitors, not allies. America has the most technical information of relevance. It is easily accessible. So naturally your country will receive the most attention from the intelligence services.””

        source – The Growth of Economic Espionage: America Is Target Number One [foreignaffairs.]

        “’No Place to Hide,’ the new book by Glenn Greenwald, says the NSA eavesdrops on 20 billion communications a day — and planted bugs in Cisco equipment headed overseas”

        source – Snowden: The NSA planted backdoors in Cisco products [infoworld]

        Why don’t you complain about them? Is it because when the west and its “allies” (who are militarily occupied against their will) does it, it’s honorable and just?

        To summarize this section, the West has been stealing from China for over a thousand years to further their economies. From silkworms to tea/India, until the late Qing dynasty, the West was still in an inferior trade position with their demand for Chinese products like tea and porcelain being well known. The West ended up compensating with barbarism and drugging China at gun point with the Opium Wars. Hilariously, the West is perpetually in an inferior trade imbalance position. In the past, it was due to strong demand for expensive Chinese products with no reciprocal demand for western products. Today, even when China is labelled with low quality and cheap products, the West STILL suffers from a trade imbalance.

        More American comedy from history

        “Although typically glossed over in high-school textbooks, as a young and newly industrializing nation the U.S. aggressively engaged in the kind of intellectual-property theft it now insists other countries prohibit.

        In other words, the U.S. government’s message to China and other nations today is “Do as I say, not as I did.”

        “In its adolescent years, the U.S. was a hotbed of intellectual piracy and technology smuggling, particularly in the textile industry, acquiring both machines and skilled machinists in violation of British export and emigration laws.”

        “The most candid mission statement in this regard was Alexander Hamilton’s “Report on Manufactures,” submitted to Congress in December 1791. “To procure all such machines as are known in any part of Europe can only require a proper provision and due pains,” Hamilton wrote. “The knowledge of several of the most important of them is already possessed. The preparation of them here is, in most cases, practicable on nearly equal terms.”

        Notice that Hamilton wasn’t urging the development of indigenous inventions to compete with Europe but rather the direct procurement of European technologies through “proper provision and due pains” — meaning, breaking the laws of other countries”

        “At least part of the “Report on Manufactures” can therefore be read as a manifesto calling for state-sponsored theft and smuggling.”

        “The first U.S. Patent Act encouraged this policy. Although the law safeguarded domestic inventors, it didn’t extend the same courtesy to foreign ones.”

        source – Piracy and Fraud Propelled the U.S. Industrial Revolution [bloomberg]

        “When Charles Dickens, left, arrived in Boston in 1842, he was startled to see what Americans would do for profit…he found the city’s bookstores rife with pirated copies of his novels, along with those of his countrymen. Dickens would later deliver lectures decrying the practice, and wrote home in outrage: “my blood so boiled as I thought of the monstrous injustice.”

        “With each tawdry revelation, China’s brand of capitalism looks increasingly menacing and foreign to our own sensibilities.

        That’s a tempting way to see things, but wrong. What’s happening halfway around the world may be disturbing, even disgraceful, but it’s hardly foreign. A century and a half ago, another fast-growing nation had a reputation for sacrificing standards to its pursuit of profit, and it was the United States.”

        source – A nation of outlaws A century ago, that wasn’t China — it was us [boston.com]

        The darker side of American “innovation”

        “In the chaos following World War II, some of the greatest spoils of Germany’s resources were the Third Reich’s scientific minds. The U.S. government secretly decided that the value of these former Nazis’ knowledge outweighed their crimes and began a covert operation code-named Paperclip to allow them to work in the U.S. without the public’s full knowledge.”

        “A powerful book that will change your view of the Defense Department”

        ”The newly formed Joint Intelligence Objective Agency, or JOIA, had decided that these scientists were too valuable to the U.S. to allow to fall into Soviet hands. The initiative started by JOIA, Operation Paperclip, was a covert American operation that was one of the most guarded U.S. government secrets of the 20th century. Some of the scientists who were part of it were well known — Albert Einstein for one. But others had much darker pasts:”

        ”* Otto Ambros was a Third Reich chemist who served as director of the German corporation that produced the gas used in the death camps. He was tried at Nuremberg, found guilty of mass murder, and sentenced to eight years. While he was serving time in prison, Operation Paperclip officials arranged for his sentence to be commuted. In 1951, Ambros was hired to work at a clandestine facility north of Frankfurt called Camp King. His work, sanctioned by the Defense Department, ultimately involved the testing of sarin toxins on American soldiers without their knowledge.”

        ”* Arthur Rudolph was a Nazi rocket scientist who played a key role in the V-2 rocket program. One of Operation Paperclip’s earliest hires, Rudolph, in the U.S., worked his way up through the ranks of NASA to become project director of the Saturn V rocket program. Ultimately, Rudolph was led to confess to war crimes, but his work is all over the U.S. aeronautics technology.”

        ”* Kurt Blome, a virologist, pioneered Hitler’s secret germ warfare program. Specializing in plague research, Blome conducted human tests on concentration camp prisoners and was a defendant at the Nuremberg Doctors’ Trial. Acquitted, Blome was instrumental in the U.S. germ warfare program.”

        source – Operation Paperclip: The Secret Intelligence Program that Brought Nazi Scientists to America

        “Everyone has heard of Auschwitz, but what about Pingfan? This Japanese germ warfare headquarters and laboratory in Manchuria, northern China, did not hold as many victims, but atrocities committed there were physically worse than in the Nazi concentration camp, and lasted much longer.”

        “Why the discrepancy of knowledge about these two monsters? After so long, why does it still matter? The answer to both questions lies in policies of secrecy and complicity that continue today.

        “It is because of U.S. connivance in Japanese secrecy that Tokyo’s biological war has yet to be fully disclosed. An estimated 400,000 disease deaths, almost all Chinese, remain uncompensated. Japan, unlike Germany with its commendable atonement and billions of dollars in reparations, has yet even to apologize specifically to biological war victims, let alone pay compensation for suffering from its nationally driven medical torture program.”

        “On my desk are two documents previously marked Top Secret and dated July 1947. They show not only full U.S. participation in allowing the Japanese medical torturers who escaped to Tokyo to go free in exchange for information, but that the Pentagon actually paid them. As General Charles Willoughby, chief of U.S. Military Intelligence (known as G-2) gleefully noted to his headquarters, these pay-offs were “a mere pittance… netting the U.S. the fruit of 20 years’ laboratory tests and research” in this “critically serious form of warfare.””

        “General Willoughby and officials of MacArthur’s Supreme Command for the Allied Powers in Tokyo had succeeded in suppressing evidence from Ishii and colleagues, but separate inquiries were made by the International Prosecution Section (IPS). Its lawyers gathered evidence including detailed statements from defecting Japanese bio-scientists from Pingfan. The latter testified to human live vivisection, the dumping of lethal germs in Chinese water supplies and food stores, as well as aerial spraying. Yet all was silenced even though the information went to the top.”

        source: The United States and the Japanese Mengele: Payoffs and Amnesty for Unit 731 [Japan focus]

        Summary

        To recap, America supported a nation-wide policy of intellectual theft and sheltered the 20th century’s two most hated war criminals (Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan) in order to gain technology that was paid for by the blood of thousands of horrifically tortured and murdered victims – while preaching breathlessly about international law, innovation, freedom, and justice.

        Like

        • Fre Okin says:

          Great job! The West and Japan Leaped ahead of China through vile behaviors when China was weak. They Plunder, Massacre, they Poisoned the Chinese for over a hundred years. No Wonder China was So Far Behind. Now The Dragon Wakes Up and everybody cry foul. What a bunch of sickos who don’t know their wealth, technology advances were created through Robbery, Slave Enterprises, Colonialism.

          Younger generations should understand whatever China do is far far less dangerous than what Imperialists did to her before. In fact they should Cheer China to Catch Up Fast so there will be Less Arrogance on US part and hopefully Less Chance of a nuclear war with a Strong China able to terrorize her back, As Needed…. I think it is called Deterrence and China need to Up the deterrence game to put Fear into US warmongers.

          BTW breaking current US law is definitely wrong. What the lawbreakers should do is to push for more Legalized exports of sensitive technologies. It make no sense to keep China Too Far behind. This will also reduce US trade deficit with China. This is the only correct Game to play.

          Liked by 1 person

      • Steve says:

        What an ignorant Boofhead.

        Like

      • Joseph says:

        Quite an old propaganda, isn’t it, that China cannot innovate. If China cannot innovate, then why would the West bother to poach Chinese talents? There are more other source of ‘talents’ that the West always eager to promote, such as the Indian who are more Western friendly, but still Westerners prefer Chinese to do their research, be it from China itself or from SE Asia countries such as Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia. Since the West began oscitrizing China and Chinese people in 2012, Western research faces a wall, with the clear victim of the F-35 engine itself. Clearly those Chinese talents has abandoned Western research facilities by the numbers, either because of their sense of pride or because of their newfound prosecutions. Many Western countries try to plug the shortage of Chinese talent by newly promoting ‘the important of science’ to produce indigenous talents, but how long until they ready? If they are ever ready. Even countries such as US and Australia are now actively encouraging their people to be ‘innovative’ to ‘rejuvenate’ the economy, which indicates that they haven’t been ‘innovative’ for some times, which is why their economy is so stagnant.

        Like

        • VH says:

          What ‘Chinese talents’ has the west poached? If the west is so stagnant why has the PLAN copied American deck procedures on their ex-Russian carrier right down to the the color coded jerseys of the deck crews? Please explain.

          Like

          • Steve says:

            Hey Kiddo – this is as low as I would go to explain your Q using logics. I will start with traffic lights. As u are aware that the world street traffic lights are coded in Red, Amber and Green. Why.? When a prism breaks white light into a continuum of wavelengths, you can identify the individual colours similar within a rainbow. According to scientific research and development (R&D) by individual countries, the warning light proven to be safest is red and relaxed are green and blue.

            When information is correct, one need to use it for the safety of people. As in this case the colour coded jerseys of deck crews. Similarly, to roadside and Government workers including emergency road signage wearing red and orange as a precaution to warn drivers and others. Especially on an aircraft carrier where space is a premium. These colour coded jerseys are the correct choice. Can u understand kid.?

            As for the deck of aircraft carriers, u are looking at least $200 million including the carrier, storage of military assets and a few thousand sailors on board. The Chinese would have R & D and tested all types of corrections, safety and necessities to make sure that All procedures are intensely and meticulously followed. If the systems are principally research and developed, All aircraft carriers would have similar procedures for the safety of the carrier and sailors. No naval procedures will do things contrary as it maybe be detrimental to the safety of the warship. Just like passenger cars driven on All four wheels as deemed to be the safest. Can u understand kid.?

            Like

            • T50 says:

              China uses a carrier designed and built in Russia. China also uses a version of the Su-33 aboard this carrier. The Chinese copy is named the J-15. The question is that if China has decided to follow a Russian solution for their carrier development path, why didn’t they go all the way and adopt the Russian deck procedures and methods as well?

              Like

              • Steve says:

                U really are inept and need psychological help. Do u know what is to defy logic.? Use your common sense. Go ask your Indian friends for help.

                Like

              • chankaiyee2 says:

                Because China wants the best. US procedures are certainly the best and available. Russian carrier and carrier-based fighters are certainly inferior to American ones, but they are the best available.

                The art of war is an art of deception!

                Copy and learn from others if possible. If money cannot buy, steal or even rob. That is why spies are so important for a country’s military.

                Like

              • Steve says:

                I hope u have appreciated the free tuition given by CKY (straight to the point), but I bet u will come up with something illogical.

                Like

                • T50 says:

                  Without the US, China would be nothing. I get it. Peace out!

                  Like

                  • Steve says:

                    Go back to India and get some medical help…Peace in.!

                    Like

                  • Simon says:

                    The Pak Fa could just as well be Pakistani 🙂
                    The Russians were giving India a low quality version ofthe T50 to India and keep the better version for themselves.

                    With regard to the Chinese “immitation” of Russian Su fighters the only similarity is the airframe design, the materials use for the airframe is lighter and stealthier. The Chinese changed all the avionics with glass cockpit, golden cockpit and advance weapons system because the Russian equievelent are inferior to Chinese version.
                    An example is the Chinese J16 which was suppose to be copy of the Russian Su30 but because the Chinese made lots of improvements to the J16 it is being compared to the premier Russian Su35. China were not all that interested in the Su 35 and agree to buy a reduce number from Russia to replace the Su27 bought from Russia in 1996 which are due to retire.

                    Like

                    • F100 says:

                      China does not have one J-20 in service. So noone knows how effective they will be. J-20 has been developed in secret with only the Chinese government feeding the world information. It will be interesting to learn how effect this giant aircraft really is. Things like coatings for defeating radars and what angles the J-20 is most vulnerable to detection by radars will surely be determined. One thing we do know is that J-20 is vulnerable to detection in the rear quarter due to its shaping in those areas. This is the reasons that F-22 has the vectored nozzle configuration that you see.
                      In any event I look forward to j-20 coming out of hiding and allowing the world to take a good look at the aircraft. Then we will see just how stealthy J-20 really is.

                      Like

                    • Steve says:

                      Good Article, but that Sour head would not understand logic and principle.

                      Like

      • Sentinel says:

        SANCTIMONIOUS HYPOCRITICAL OBAMA’S INTERNET TROLLS

        Bl**dy CIA troll. For what’s it’s worth, one of the current or contemporary filching of Chinese secrets and passing it off as their – the Westerners that is – is the Sichuan nask changing trick.

        These Westerners have taken the secret and use it to perform rave costume changing acts, especially in magic shows and say no word or attribute no credit to the Chinese. No different from the making of metals gears for motors, stolen from Chinese discoveries but keeping dead quiet where the source for their creation came from. The same for the Chinese sea navigational maps in Venice and which Christopher Columbus and Vasco Da Gama and Bartholomew Magellan had when they went out to “discover” the world.

        How vile and dishonest the so-called civilized Westerners. Taking credit for other’s discoveries. *rsehole obama troll.

        Like

  3. valiant says:

    how can a chinese spy be able to purchase 3 jet engines and a predator drone with accompanying plans and documents as if these items can be easilly procured without the authorities knowing it is beyond anybodys comprehension. Maybe this spy also possesses the invisible cloak.

    Like

  4. Simon says:

    I heard rumours about a re-boot of the Clint Eastwood film “FireFox” about an American spy going to China to steal its latest J25 stealth fighter.

    Like

    • Steve says:

      They must be stealing a phantom of the opera. The J25 has not flown yet…What about the J23 and J18…one is known as the ghost bird will take down the F22 in a few seconds…the other is still practising vertical take off…and yes I am still waiting for the J18 J23 J25…All protected by Quantum Satellite communication….impossible to steal…but be careful of the Japanese spy speaking HK Cantonese living in Guangdong spying for the US…

      Like

      • Simon says:

        J25 has not been revealed with technology that surpasses anything just like in the movie Firefox, What the point of making a movie about a secret super stealth fighter if it is something already known to the public?

        Like

        • Steve says:

          Because it takes at least 8 years of testing and innovation. The F35 took 10 years costing hundreds of billions of $$$ and still a lemon. The J-20 will only be 80% complete when released in small batches. Still need at least another 2 to 5 years of testing to bring it to full potential. I suppose the movie script can only try to steal the blue prints, stealth coating and design. I suppose you are right, it’s only a movie.

          Like

  5. Steve says:

    Alas, Cyber espionage is alive and well, Cloak and Dagger stuff, Lies and Deceit is the name to the game. From China with love, from USA with hate…Will it ever end.? Of Course Not…It’s All in the game of hide and seek…Let’s start All over again…remember Edward Snowden.? China must be careful of it’s hypersonic secrets…Japanese spy speaking Guangdong spying for America…An American spy married to a Chinese double agent……..

    Like

  6. Simon says:

    As if the Chinese would recruite people of their own ethnicity or nationality to spy on America and don’t expect to arouse suspicion from a country who is paranoid about China.

    Like


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